Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore

Season 2, Episode 2 – Janae & Amanda debate the order of events in the love affair between Dumbledore and Grindelwald in the third release of the Fantastic Beasts series.

by Girls Go Books Deep

Hello, Weirdos!

How has everyone been? Hoping all is well and you’re finding where you should be.

Director: David Yates (last 4 HP films, all FB films)

Writers: JK Rowling & Steve Kloves (who was a writer for all of the HP films except for one, and was a producer for the first two FB films)

Producer: JK Rowling, Steve Kloves, David Heyman (who produced *all* of the films), Lionel Wigram (who’s been a part of the WW project since Order of the Pheonix), and Tim Lewis.

  • We waited 4 years for a lackluster film that seemed to abandon all of the previous information and not bother to explain the changes in magic, historical events, or details.
  • Is this a problem of “middle child syndrome”, do we blame COVID, a combo of the two – or just plain bad writing?


Eddie Redmayne – Newt ScamanderJude Law – Albus DumbledorEzra Miller – Credence BareboneDan Fogler – Jacob KowalskiAlison Sudol – Queenie GoldsteinWilliam Nadylam – Yusuf KamaCallum Turner – Theseus ScamanderJessica Williams – Professor Eulalie “Lally” HicksVictoria Yeates – Bunty BroadacrePoppy Corby-Tuech – Vinda RosierFiona Glascott – Minerva McGonagallKatherine Waterston – Tina GoldsteinMaria Fernanda Cândido – Vicencia SantosRichard Coyle – Aberforth DumbledorOliver Masucci – Anton VogelMads Mikkelsen – Gellert Grindlewald
  • No mention of why he looked different, even though it could have either been written into the story or more of an effort could have been made to make his hair and contact eye look more similar to the previous iteration of the character.
  • More problems – with editing: Eddie Redmayne: “The whole section that is set in Bhutan was meant to be set in Brazil, but because we were meant to travel and go and shoot there. Then COVID hit. They could have built some of Brazil here because they’re good at it, but basically, the weather, because we were shooting during British winter, was too awful, so sadly we had to give up the Brazilian element and it was changed to Bhutan, which has an amazing mystery and beauty as well. But I was excited because we never get to go on location for these movies. Cry! We get to see some pretty extraordinary sets, but I was excited for a group visit to Brazil”.
  • Was that not AvadaKadavra used on the Mama Qilan? Don’t use green if it’s not that spell, wtf. The Deluminator can all of a sudden do some very new things, and there’s no mention of how or why? And what the hell with the port key exit onto the train?
  • Main complaint: The magic itself isn’t right or consistent with previous movies in this world and then other events are strangely too normal where they could have easily used magic? Why are they making it harder than it actually is, to fill in with the extra time that could have been used in better ways?
  • Another thing I remembered while researching for this movie: McGonagal wasn’t born until 1935 but a “Ms. McGonagal” was chasing the children around in 1909-1910 when Newt & Leta were at Hogwarts – please explain that one!
  • Lali having a Transatlantic accent was pretty interesting. What does it say about the character?
  • And they can’t just duplicate the suitcases by they can duplicate all of the books and the pastries inside said suitcases…. Please explain, Lucy!
  • What was the point of Yusuf Kama in this movie? He was supposed to become part of G’s camp to gain info (which is never gotten, never shows us him giving info to D), but makes us think he’s possibly switched sides. He purposefully never gives any face emotion, strange, and then at the very last second – he pops up in Bhutan to do a quick bam boom, in the process of *not* proving himself to G.  But there are no consequences. He just has to deal with the fact that his sister’s memory is now gone for basically no reason at all.  FUKCING LAME.
  • The dark magic element was really stepped up in this movie, for sure not for kids.
  • Speaking of which, how do we feel about Mads as the new Grindlewald now? Do we like him or Johnny better? Tell us which one you liked better –  either in the comments or as a DM on social media. We are @girlsgobooksdeep on all social media platforms except for twitter where we’re @gg_booksdeep.
  • What happened with the prophecy/poem?
    A son cruelly banished

Despair of the daughter

Return, great avenger

With wings from the water.

— Prophecy 20 by Tycho Dodonus[src]
This prophecy was proven to not be about the Lestrange family when Leta Lestrange revealed her darkest secret: While on a ship to the United States, she grew angry at her baby brother’s constant crying and switched him for a quieter baby (revealed to be Credence). Before she could reveal what had happened, the ship began to sink and was evacuated, leaving Corvus to tragically drown, something which haunted Leta for the rest of her life.

  • Not only does Aberforth have that built-in familial connection to phoenixes, but did you know the name Aberforth means “from the river?” The name Aberforth quite literally means coming from a body of water.
  • In the end – What are we rating this movie, out of 10? Like barely a 5?
  • Grindlewald is a better villain than Voldemort (but it’s being wasted)
    • Voldemort is just a plain psychopath devoid of the ability to love and wants to only rule over pure born wizards while F everyone else
    • Grindlewald is a super narcissist who thinks he’s better than everyone, and life would be so much better for the greater good of all, if wizards rose up to rule over muggles and G rules over them all.
  • Grindlewald is incredibly similar to Dumbledor, they seem to be two sides of the same coin.  That’s why Dumbledor seems to fear leadership, he mistrusts himself. (which is for good reason, he ends up dying *because* of this hubris, because he puts the Horcrux Ring with the Resurrection Stone on, and this will kill him within a year’s time.  That’s why he has to speed up his lessons with Harry, why he has to have a plan for Snape to kill him. All because he knows he holds the elder wand, Harry has the Invisibility Cloak and he now holds the Ressurection Stone.  Those plans he made with G, all those many years ago – the lure is just too much and he puts the ring on. Holding the resurrection stone also taunts him to simply try and bring back his parents, bring back his sister’s felt so guilty about for almost his entire life. Whether he meant to or not – he seals his own doom. 
  • The love affair between G & D is now officially canon. Happy about that.
  • Though, how language is used matters.  The way they frame the fight between the three men is not exactly clear and the way it’s said that Aberforth “disapproved”  – it’s obvious what he disapproved of in the books, but it’s left ambiguous in the movie; making it seem as though Aberforth didn’t approve of their relationship – which is not the case in the book.
  • The next movie should show us the fight that killed Ariana, because the timeline and description of how everything went down, and its relation to the creation of the blood oath between the two isn’t fully clear.  And the fact that everyone just keeps talking about it in the past tense, but never showing us anything is what is causing this debate.
  • Debate:


Shout out to Super Carlin Brothers YouTube channel and for helping with getting us a lot of the information we needed to complete this timeline of events in order to gain a clearer picture.

Picture it: Godric’s Hollow, Summer, 1899. I was 18 and in my prime. He was visiting for the summer and newly kicked out of school…
  • 1899:
    • Albus gets high marks on his N.E.W.T.S. and has a promising future ahead of him.  He plans to go on a wizarding world tour and start an illustrious career.
    • Ariana (who we know now is clearly an obscurial) has an “episode” and accidentally kills her mother.  Dumbledor graduates with lots of sadness because he can’t leave to go on a grand tour with his bestie, and now has to take care of his very fragile sister on top of losing his mother. 
    • Gellert is expelled from Durmstrang and comes to spend the summer at Godric’s Hollow, becoming close friends, and then more, with Albus very quickly.
    • They challenge each other in many ways, he opens up his world and they plan to go on a journey together to find the Deathly Hollows in order to get the Wizarding World to wake up and not be in the shadows anymore.  Taking over the muggles is for their own good and we should use our powers for the greater good. They start to plan to leave, taking Ariana with them.
    • Aberforth confronts them, saying that it’s wrong – he should be home to care for their sister in her fragile state, not off searching for Deathly Hollows and dragging her along.
    • Gellert says “You just don’t understand.” to Aberforth and then hits him with the Cruciatus curse! That’s when a duel breaks out between the 3 wizards and Ariana reacts in some way that causes her to be caught in the crossfire. Albus lives with guilt for the rest of his life. 
    • Aberforth and Albus get into a huge fight at the funeral, and the younger brother breaks D’s nose in front of everyone.  Bathilda Bagshot says something like it’s too bad Gellert wasn’t there to comfort Albus.  
    • Gellert gets the hell out of there, he’s not at the funeral.
  • 1900-1905:
    • I think he went back home to collect himself after such an eventful summer.  He goes back home to start preparations for travel and doing research – which means lots of book reading and asking old people in old places questions.
    • Gregorovitch is a super famous Eastern European wandmaker.  He brags to everyone about being the owner of the Elder Wand, thinking it will drum up business. This draws the attention of Gellert who then steals it from him.  (we see this in a memory seen by Voldemort who is torturing Gregorovitch to get the wand via Harry in the Deathly Hallows.)
    • At this point, he becomes the owner of the Elder Wand, the first piece of the Deathly Hollows, and has set off on his mission that was originally supposed to include Dumbledor.
  • 1926:
    • Fast forward 15 years or so, and we have Grindlewald hiding out in Switzerland when 5 aurors approach to capture him, but they’re blasted and killed.
    • He then immediately goes to NY to track down the obscurial he saw in a vision, all while impersonating Percival Graves, the most powerful auror in MACUSA.
    • Headlines on the newspapers in the first movie read “Gellert Grindlewald Dark Wizard Strikes Again in Europe.”
    • We never hear about exactly what he’s been doing this whole time, but it must be enough to make him a wanted wizard *internationally* for some time now.  

So the question is:  **When** was the blood oath between D & G created? Before Ariana’s death, or after?

I think it must have come *after* the first duel.

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Girls Go Books Deep
Two millennial best friends who (couldn't be more opposite, but) love to talk about Fantasy/SciFi TV Shows & Movies, especially when they're based on literature or graphic novels.
Listen to the Podcast anywhere and everywhere or enjoy Janae & Amanda's *Live Reactions & Discussions* on the YouTube Channel under the same name: Girls Go Books Deep
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